Bob Dole Calls Out NPR
Former Republican Senator Audio Beef Today. NOT MUSIC! Bob Dole gets fed up with biased and off-topic questions and lets Terry Gross know about it.
'Fresh Air Interview - 04/12/2005 - Full' (8mb .mp3, 64Khz mono)
'Fresh Air Interview - 04/12/2005 - Advice To John Kerry' (4mb .mp3, 64Khz mono)
'Fresh Air Interview - 04/12/2005 - NPR Is Part And Parcel Of The Democratic Party' (2mb .mp3, 64Khz mono)
by Bob Dole and Terry Gross from NPR's Fresh Air, April 12th, 2005
Here's a fun excerpt from Bob Dole's recent appearance on NPR's 'Fresh Air.' I've never been much of a Bob Dole fan, I thought he was a lame senator and an even lamer candidate for President. However, after hearing this interview I gained a bit of respect for the man. Former Senator Dole was on Fresh Air to promote his new memoir : 'One Soldiers Story : A Memoir' but Terry Gross kept asking him questions about current political issues. He became a bit irate and decided to tell her what he really thinks, about John Kerry, NPR, the New York and LA Times, the Washington Post and the Swift Boat Vets. You can hear the entire interview at the URL above, but I've encoded and transcribed the fun bit.
(Partial transcript is mine. Copyright obviously belongs to NPR. All emphasis and errors mine.)
Here's the bit about Kerry, where Dole weighs in on Kerry's service and its effect on the failure of his campaign. This part of the transcript is in the "Full" and "Advice To John Kerry" files above.
T: Being a veteran and being injured in the war was such a life changing experience for you, so some people were surprised that you became one of the people who criticized John Kerry for his military service during the period of the Swift Boat Campaign against him. You said "Three Purple Hearts and he never bled that I know of, I mean, they're all superficial wounds. Three Purple Hearts and you're out." How did you decide whether to say anything and then what to say about Kerry's service during the 2004 Presidential Campaign?B: Well, I only said it once. And John Kerry and I are friends, and we're still friends, even though this.. politics is not beanbag, it's hardball. And I'd sent word through one of his friends (who I will not name because he doesn't want to be involved) to tell John to stop talking about Vietnam. I mean it seemed to me that he overdid it. I really think he may have won the election had he not talked about his.. when he saluted at the convention and everything was sorta based on him being a Vietnam Hero and I acknowledged when I said that that he was.. I don't quarrel with his war record, it's a great record and he ought to be pleased about it. But I was also in the Senate when he came back with that terrible display and in effect said our soldiers there were raping and killing babies and that was only a report, he was reporting what he had picked up, but he should have been more responsible. If he didn't know the facts he shouldn't have been spewing all that bad news about, or charges against our own forces. But I talked to Kerry after I made that statement because he just kept pushing and pushing and pushing his war injuries, and the fact the injuries weren't severe at all. I felt it necessary to make a statement, I mean you get the feeling after a while if somebody is out there telling how bad they were wounded or injured.. the facts didn't bear it out.
T: Maybe I'm mistaken, but my memory is that he wasn't emphasizing being wounded as much as, you know, the bravery and a sense of leadership he had to display when he was in Vietnam.
D: Oh, I think he referred to his Purple Hearts frequently, and his Silver Star. And I don't quarrel with the fact that he served in Vietnam. But I always felt, when I ran in 96 and Clinton evaded service (he didn't avoid service, he evaded it), can I capitalize on that? And say this guy is a so-and-so because he didn't serve? I didn't think that was appropriate. I thought I could talk about, I'd get up and say I'm proud to be a veteran and then go and talk about the issues. I wouldn't stand there for 20 minutes and say this happened to me and this happened to me and this happened to me, and I couldn't use my left arm, my right arm, dah-dah-dah-dah. I don't know whether people want to hear that every time you stand up. And I think that was.. but that's not in my book. I'm not talking about politics.
T: No, I realize that. Weren't you concerned, though, that as a result of the Swift Boat campaign, that it kinda opened up the door for anybody who had been a veteran, who had risked their life to serve their country, that their record could be impugned, that in spite of risking their lives for their country that someone could come along and say well it didn't really happen, or you didn't do what you said you did and that, you're, you know..
D: Well, I don't know, I wasn't part of the Swift Boat operation, so I don't know. I mean, I think that they had.. it's hard to believe that 260 men, I guess in this case, who were in that group were all telling.. were all liars and were not telling the truth. So it may be that their recollection was a little cloudy but this is not.. it's about my book, it's not about the last campaign.
[ transcript break at 4:11 in the "Full" file ]
Here, Dole reveals that he told Kerry to stop talking about Vietnam so much, and that he believes it may have cost Kerry the election. Bob Dole knows something about losing a Presidential election, so it might have served Kerry to listen to him.
In addition, Former Senator Dole points out something which is factually unquestioned : that none of Kerry's injuries were severe. He also comes out with the obvious rejoinder to the accusation that the Swift Boat Veterans were lying, the fact that there were over 250 of them. I've never really been able to believe that all 250 men were so motivated by partisan politics that they would stake their word on personal opinions which were entirely made up. This doesn't mean that I necessarily believed every one of them, but that those who shared their opinion of Kerry as a soldier and an individual must be presumed to be sincere. Even if some of them were inaccurate in their version of events, an opinion cannot be factually disproved.
Terry Gross ignores Dole's first grumblings about the political questions, and proceeds to ask him to speculate on whether Tom DeLay is threatening judges with impeachment if they disagree with Republicans. The transcript resumes when Gross asks Dole a final question about Tom DeLay. Bob seems to have had enough and lets Terry know exactly what he thinks about NPR and a host of others besides. This part is in the "Full" and "NPR Is Part And Parcel Of The Democratic Party" files, above.
[ transcript resumes at 6:53 in "Full" file]D: I really didn't come to discuss all that, I came to talk about my book.
T: No, I understand that. One more question about Tom Delay, though. Do you think that he should resign because of the ethical issues?
D: Why? Why, because the New York Times says that? I mean, they're part and parcel of the Democratic party, as some think NPR is, too.
T: I'm.. I'm sorry but do you feel like you need to say that I'm asking questions from a biased view, that it's not ok to just ask questions?
D: No, it's fine to ask that question, I don't have to respond to it, because I don't have the facts.
T: Absolutely, you have the right to not respond if you don't want to, and.. Ok.
D: You give me the facts, I'm a pretty good judge, but you give me what the New York Times says or the LA Times or the Washington Post, who are out to get DeLay in the first place, then I don't think that I can make a judgement. If they want to bring out every member of Congress who may have done the same thing (and again, I don't know what was done) but lets just say it'd be a great thing for NPR to look down both parties and see how many parties quote allegedely end-quote have abused a system when it comes to trips or who pays for trips and I think that would be doing a public service. But when you just single out one person because of his philosophy and his party affiliation, then I think that's wrong. It seems to me that there are a lot of.. most of the members of Congress, regardless of party, are well intentioned men and women who want to get the job done. And this gotcha journalism that some people promote is not.. I don't think it's healthy.. or it's not right, either.
T: I want to get back to your book.
D: Good. Yeah, I thought that's what I came for.
T: I thought that you might say that.
When I originally heard this interview, this is the point where I was pumping my fists in the air and chanting "BOB DOLE!! BOB DOLE!!" because he was letting it all hang out. One of the benefits of being 81 and retired, I presume.
Terry completely ignores his (fourth of fifth) protestation about the political questions and asks him a loaded question about Tom DeLay. You can sense that he's had enough, and he accuses the New York Times and NPR of being "part and parcel of the Democratic Party." Priceless.
(To forstall inevitable kvetching: I absolutely love NPR. I've listened to it all my life, and I credit All Things Considered as a significant contributor to my knowledge of the world and my interest in it. But let's be honest, here. NPR is a liberal media bastion, as is PBS. Everyone knows it. They're not as far left as, say, The Nation, but they're at least as far left as the New York or LA Times. It sometimes bugs me, but every media source comes with caveats, and NPR is better at the business of news and commentary than most. I value it, but it's clearly liberal. Ok?)
Terry, clearly flustered, asks him a mealy-mouthed question about "just asking questions" and Dole freestyle rants some more. This time it's about the degree to which media elites focus on a given person when attempted to create sensational stories. He points out that many members of Congress engage in the behavior which DeLay has been accused of and accuses the media of practicing "gotcha journalism." In my opinion, this is true on both sides. It's disgusting no matter who is doing it, and counterproductive.
After his tirade ends, Terry finally gets the message and asks him a question about his book... truly a classic Conservative-on-NPR moment. Enjoy!
(Shouts out to incitor, who was also chanting "BOB DOLE!! BOB DOLE!!" when he heard this on the radio in his car. Jeers to NPR for not providing transcripts of their shows, so I have to spend hours of my time typing it up. Sheesh.)
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